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Started by logon didonai at 04-16-2009 3:53 PM. Topic has 20 replies.

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   04-16-2009, 3:53 PM
logon didonai is not online. Last active: 4/17/2009 12:45:54 AM logon didonai

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Re: Rational Egoism
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Hmm.. interesting replies. I'm not sure that I understand where some of you are coming from. I encourage you to focus on the split brain case. This has nothing to do with collectivist, and I fear that this sort of black/white dichotomy is getting in the way of genuine understanding. I'd like to present the case once more, and I'll try to focus on the morally relevant issues.

Imagine that you have epilepsy. This isn't science fiction. Nor is this the result of a grand conspiracy by collectivists. Epilepsy is a real problem for some human beings. Why is this a problem? Well, it causes uncontrollable seizures. Now, you can solve this problem by having an operation performed. In this operation the doctors will cut your corpus collosum. This prevents the electrical and chemical signals from your neurons from spreading throughout your entire brain. This will stop the seizures. But, be warned, this will also divide your brain. That is, after the operation you will have two centers of consciousness, two thinking subjects.
Here's the question: assuming that you're a rational egoist, do you have the operation?
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   07-30-2009, 12:53 AM
AndrosBlaze is not online. Last active: 8/4/2009 10:21:37 PM AndrosBlaze

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Re: Rational Egoism
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I'm a latecomer here, but:

In response to your first scenario (kidnapping/body-switching): the question is not one of 'who gets the money/which body gets destroyed'.  More important than these is the fact that the patient's voluntary consent was not obtained for the operation.  That's the most important tenet of Objectivism as it relates to interpersonal interaction: voluntary consent.  Sure, the operation was painless, and at the end of the day there's probably no appreciable difference between the bodies; however, this does not change the fact that the patient's time was taken without prior knowledge OR consent.  In this way, his right to his own life was violated by his kidnappers.

In response to your epilepsy scenario: A rational egoist would have to consider his or her alternatives.  Is risking  a split in the brain worth relieving the stress of erratic, uncontrollable seizures?  I haven't had time to look into the links you posted, so I really don't know any answers to this question.  What are the real affects of having your brain split in half?  How does it manifest itself in thought and behavior?
Also, is surgery the only way that epilepsy can be treated?  It strikes me that a rational egoist who ruled out the surgery would probably want to seek alternative ways of handling his condition.

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   08-24-2009, 6:33 AM
Arlye is not online. Last active: 8/24/2009 5:20:15 PM Arlye

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Re: Rational Egoism
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Lol ... I am not sure what your original question has to do with what Rand proposed as a philosophical paradigm, but you might want to read 'I Will Fear No Evil' by R. Heinlein for some intriguing ideas on your question.

'Perfect knowledge' would be the criteria to make such a choice. You might want to spend the 4 hours online learning everything you could find on such a transfer of organs and what clones really are ... but I do not think that was the point of your question.

What was the true point ?
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   11-19-2009, 7:56 PM
Vicksburg is not online. Last active: 11/20/2009 5:32:21 AM Vicksburg

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Re: Rational Egoism
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What part of it is most bizarre?

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   02-19-2010, 7:42 PM
Aleksa is not online. Last active: 2/20/2010 8:34:09 AM Aleksa

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Confused [*-)] Re: Rational Egoism
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First of all (to logon didonai), rational egotism is an oxymoron.

Egotism entails biased individualism.

Rational entails unbiased reasoning.

Individualism entails acknowledging and respecting one's individual preferences.

Altruism entails acknowledging and respecting individual preferences of another person no less than one's own person. 

Objectivism entails acknowledging and respecting objective truths (truths which are independent of individual preferences).

A rational individual is someone who asserts all three of these isms -- object-i-v-ism, alt-r-u-ism and individual-ism, wouldn't you agree?


Second (to Ayn Rand's fans), by her own admission, Rand was opposed to all forms of control, which in my opinion is quite irrational persuasion because it's counterproductive to negate all rules, just as bespeaking for absolute control is counterproductive.

(Absolutism of any type is counterproductive and, for that matter, not feasible even if pursued ardently, nor is desirable since it makes conscience obsolete).

And what is being an objectivist without being unbiased or without being rational?

And if by control Rand did not mean having rules, what did she mean by it? 

Really, what are rules if not principles?

And what are controls if not rules?


And by the way, what is rational approach to rampant fraud or turpitude if not having controls (rules or principles) that dissuade it? 
 


- Aleksa


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   02-23-2010, 12:21 AM
Argyle is not online. Last active: 2/23/2010 10:11:04 AM Argyle

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Re: Rational Egoism
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If we trust the story fully, and have to choose one of the given options, it obviously does not matter which body gets the thousand dollars. If you are truly exactly the same, down to the atom, then there is no difference.

Obviously, the company has acted immorally by initiating force and by murdering a person.

A better solution is to escape the hospital with your second self and live off the grid. Alert the state to the activities of this company and trust yourself. Change plan as situation calls necessary.
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