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08-23-2009, 7:09 PM freedomintruth Joined on 08-24-2009 Posts 1 Act according to our nature According to objectivism, it is morally right for people to act in accordance with their natures. "Lord of the Flies" is an example of how children behave with nothing to control their human nature. Yes, I know that's a book, however, I've raised four children that had to be prevented from killing each other at times. People with innate behaviors (natural for them) that prey on society now have scientific research that indicate that these people do not have the ability to inhibit their natural impulses. How does Objectivism dictate our reaction to these people? I have had to step between adults in an effort to stop them from reacting instead of thinking of the consequences to them and others. I read Atlas Shrugged and could see the reality of separating from the distorted societal culture and individual selfishness that the law enabled them to embrace. Living a life with objectivism as the only guide seems unrealistic. Adopting objectivism as an attempt to give society a new start reminds me of socialism taking over. At the beginning socialists state that they must establish a totalitarian government before all citizens can thrive in a socialist society. Citizens need to use their vote and voice to prevent government from erroding to a level of enabling people. When caring becomes enabling individuals tend to live down to their primitive instincts. Working to become educated and skilled and providing same for their children may seem not necessary for their survival. Very low levels of surviving become the norm. Sometimes just having one status symble like a cool car or clothes fulfils their vision of self esteem. I've gone on and on. Please reply to any or all questions. Thank you, Jane    Report

08-24-2009, 7:34 AM Arlye Joined on 08-24-2009 Posts 3 Re: Act according to our nature 'Enlightened self-interest' is the basis for Capitalism with the operative word being 'enlightened'. We are all self-interested and let no one forget that. Even the most self-sacrificing and/or 'pure' of socialists and do-gooders have a self-serving basis for their choices ... no matter how irrational or actually corrupting they may be. Sometimes this is pure survival which, I think, might want to be respected. You raise the point of human nature being violent and, then, propose government is moving toward 'enabling' this. I am not sure what you are suggesting ... despite actually agreeing with you on these broad points.    Report

11-03-2009, 5:27 AM Hotu Matua Joined on 10-30-2009 Monterrey, Mexico Posts 10 Re: Act according to our nature It is precisely becasue we know that humans have these violent instincts that we want a government that is strong enough to punish the initiation of force and bring justice, but weak enough to initiate force against its own citizens. This is a very delicate balance. Both anarchists on one extreme, and socialdemocrats on the other, claim this to be unattainable. Ayn Rand was a romantic in its best sense and meaning. She was not an utopian. She challenged us to build an ideal society out of reality and reason.That's what makes her not an utopian, but a romantic thinker. It is possible, using reason, to think out a government strong enough to prevent "Lord of the Flies" situations and still weak enough to avoid becoming a parental figure for all aspects of our lives. Possible doesn't mean easy.   To be is to be is to be.    Report

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