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General Discussion
Started by DonQuixote99 at 05-12-2007 8:39 PM. Topic has 8 replies.
  
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 05-12-2007, 8:39 PM
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DonQuixote99
Joined on 04-28-2007
sw Ohio
Posts 75
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I needed help the other day. Basically, I was picking my wife up from work, but she had to stay a while longer. So I went inside to find something to read and pass the time. When we left, about 45 minutes later, I discovered I'd left the car lights on. Battery was down just enough to not turn over the car. "Oh dear," I said, or words to that effect.
My wife suggested that we step back inside and call security on the house phone, and they would give us a jump. But just then I spotted a couple getting into a car, and I thought it would be quicker to just ask them for a jump. My wife disagreed with this notion, but I quickly approached them, calling out "Hello...excuse me...." They ignored me, got into their vehicle, and shut the doors.
I thought to myself, 'Maybe they didn't hear me.' So undeterred, I walked around to the drivers side, and made a circular gesture for the man to roll down his window. He did so. I don't recall my exact words, but I said something like "Hi, I was wondering if you could help me out, my car won't start, could you help me out with a jump?"
The gentleman did not reply, but his woman companion leaned forward at that point and quickly said "We don't have cables."
I smiled and replied "Oh, I've got the cables," since I did. But I knew already, from her manner as she spoke, that she didn't want to help me, and would not be pleased that I'd taken away her first excuse not to.
After just a moments pause, she said, with an insincerely 'pleasant' sing-song inflection "We don't want to jump with this car. Thank-you."
I was of course disappointed and fustrated at not getting my car started. But the inflection, and especially the odd 'thank-you' at the end, really irritated me. I responded with a scarcastic "You're welcome!" and walked away, steaming.
I hadn't gotten many steps away, though, before I started reflecting that according to Rand, my need absolutely did not entitle me to expect help, or to get mad if I didn't get it. That didn't instantly cool my anger, but it helped.
I accepted my wife's 'I told you so' in good grace, called security, and got prompt and courteous help from a person paid to supply such service. So all was well, and I hasten to assure all I hold no rancor towards the lady who rejected my request. I just tell the story here because it raises some 'Randian' points.
Intellectually, I understood going in that the people were under no obligation whatever to help me. Nonetheless, my emotional reaction at their rejection of my need was a quite sharp spike of anger. This says my emotions are not in accord with my reason. I have my own opinion as to why this might be so, but I invite comments from others.
I will comment that I think I'd have been much less angry if the woman had used a different communication style. The contrast between the content of her message and it's 'forced-pleasant' style bugged me; the use of the phrase 'thank-you' to mean 'go away,' for some reason, bugged me a lot. I think this was a seperate emotional reaction from the basic 'I'm fustrated that you won't help me' one, that functioned to amplify it. But I don't really consider it rational, or know why I had it.
Lastly, was my request in itself a bad thing to do? Did the people have a right to regard it as offensive? Or should people basically be willing to consider granting small favors to fellow citizens, and decline politely if, for any reason, they don't wish to in a particular case? So might my emotions partially reflect that I felt the woman's preemptory and insincerely-mannered dismissal was disrespectful?
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05-12-2007, 9:09 PM
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NickOtani
Joined on 04-21-2006
Posts 323
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I've been in this situation before on both ends. I've offered help and had to depend on help from others. This is a little different than a situation where one "really" needs help, as if one is being mugged or raped and nobody bothers to even call the police. Or, if someone is laying in the street from a car wreck and people just go around and keep on going. I do think we have an obligation to prevent evil if it is easily in our power to do so, and I think we would be evil not to do so. However, I also understand people who don't really want to get involved in other people's problems, especially if there are other options available. I won't loan money to my neighbors. I don't borrow money from others. I don't give money to the street beggers hold hold up signs on the corners of certain intersections.
Last time I left my lights on was at a school where I was subbing. I went to the office where the secretary advised me to wait for the custodian, but another woman was there and over-heard my problem. She said she had a car and could help me, and she did. I was grateful.
I used to carry a portable battery charger around with me, and it came in handy a few times. I've even helped a few enemies of mine, people who had been mean to me. I think it made them feel guilty.
bis bald,
Nick
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05-16-2007, 7:49 AM
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Mr Squiggle
Joined on 04-04-2007
Posts 35
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Actually I think you were justified, from objectivism, for being angry.
Objectivism says that a rational man will help other men for no immediate return if it is not excessively inconvenient for him to do so because the long term benefits of all men behaving in that way is good for each individual. i.e. it is rational for you to help someone jump start their car for nothing in return because you know that the goodwill that is engendered by numerous acts of a similar nature will benefit you in the long run (provided other people act the same way).
When these people refused to help you, they were a) not making a fair exchange with you in return for all the similar acts of goodwill they have no doubt benefited from during their life, and b) not acting rationally.
Hence I think it was fair for you to expect their help provided it cost them nothing (or very little).
The story would be different if they were in a rush to an important appointment.
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05-17-2007, 7:38 AM
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DonQuixote99
Joined on 04-28-2007
sw Ohio
Posts 75
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I agree with all that, Mr. S., and appreciate your comment. The 'pay it forward' idea makes gratifying and intuitive srense to me. Wasn't sure Rand was onboard, though....
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09-03-2008, 1:28 AM
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David George DeLancey
Joined on 07-06-2007
Posts 48
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![Umbrella [um]](/cs/emoticons/emotion-35.gif)
Re: Need
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I realize that the last post was about last year, still my need, especially seeing the word oops wanted me to segment something , Interesting i suppose oops there i go again. Anyway sorry wow seems like almost ever other word is darn a need. working I always have the need to word out words, seemingly need is always in one portion of a setting word it is ing i basically describe it as In Needing Guidance, or perhaps never Need expressing Virtue expressing Reason.
Need is most definitely under understanding a realisation of doing something, for instance if one was of knowledge of my talent in such as to figure out words and through time of the paragraphical venture still in recognition, explanation of need near every exceptional talent.
sometime when i explain it that way the study, then would be of the first letters of said words forming the sentences and are of then a word in description i shall carry on till next time. 1:27A.M. E.S.T. 9-3-2008
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09-24-2008, 8:26 AM
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Dingo_aus
Joined on 09-24-2008
Posts 3
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My only issue is that most modern car's electrics don't take kindly to being jump started, even with the extra special cables that have built in protection.
Jumping could have bent the plates in the "doner" car's battery or cooked the ECU. Both of which might not be apparent straight away but cost the owner later on.
Hence I think there was a risk to be considered and that risk translates to a cost for the person you asked for help.
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04-11-2009, 4:10 PM
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Martin Lundqvist
Joined on 04-11-2009
Posts 15
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About the car battery problem:
What springs to mind is that perhaps you should have offered the woman some money for her services? It would probably have been cheaper than having to call some professional to do the job for you, so you both parties would have benefited.
I do not think you can, or at least you should not, expect strangers to share when the strangers cannot see "what's in it for them". Although their manners were condemnable, I do not think it would be proper to force them to do a service out of duty - this would be ultimately self-defeating becauses it degenerates into altruistic sarcifice.
It is pretty much utopian thinking that every man should his fellow man in times of "real" need, and it will probably not come to fruitation becomes there will invariably be parasites who abuse the system. However, this is only true when socities become so large that everyone do not share the same goals, so in the respect it seems reasonable that, for example, two friends, by mutual consent, "help each other" (provide mutual aid) as part of a contract for mutual benefit.
Since you, the thread-starter, did not have any form of contract with the stranger in question, you should not have expected the person to help you in that respect. However, I sympathise in your anger because the woman treated you with contempt and disrespect, which essentially is an insult on your pride - this is enough to warrant your anger, even if I think that you should not expect strangers to be benevolent in times of need.
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04-11-2009, 11:57 PM
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galtsgulcher
Joined on 03-15-2009
Posts 47
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Hi Martin,
That's an excellent approach to offer money as an honest value for value exchange for help rendered.
Nothing can put people off like even the implication that a stranger wants something for nothing from them...
...but the honorable offer of money for help raises the interaction to a higher level than just "need".
Take Care,
Greg
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04-14-2009, 6:35 PM
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slacker00
Joined on 03-08-2009
Posts 22
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Hi guys. Certainly an interesting scenario. I've certainly been there and done that. We all have, even if the interaction wasn't about cars & jumper cables.
I think the bottom line is that we can't expect people to be cooperative. As Martin suggested, to offer money, I don't think that would have helped. I think I know the type of people described in the story, and they don't want to get mixed up with strangers in such a circumstance. Besides, it sounds like they were not in the roadside assistance business. In a rational world, we have to let people make their own decisions even if we disagree or don't understand their perspective.
Have any of you guys worked in sales to the general public? I've worked every angle of sales from door to door, telemarketing, retail sales, etc. One thing that is for certain is that you'll inevitably run into people who will not cooperate. Trying to get a jump from a stranger is one thing, but try selling a $1500 vacuum cleaner to a complete stranger moments after knocking on their door. I could never do it well enough to make a living, but I have an awesome respect for the ones I knew who could. I think in the end we are all panhandlers when interacting with others, hoping for some kindness from the random strangers, but we shouldn't be shocked when we are turned away.
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The Atlas... » Ayn Rand's Idea... » General Discuss... » Re: Need
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