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General Discussion
Started by Ramsic at 01-16-2008 7:57 PM. Topic has 7 replies.
  
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 01-17-2008, 3:55 PM
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marantaz
Joined on 01-10-2008
Posts 19
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Hello, Ramsic. I honestly don't know that what you see here will help you to determine whether Objectivism will work for you... a lot of what you see on the forum boards seems to read like a Toohey party transcript! Some believe they have a complete understanding of Rand's philosophy (and/or every other philosophy), some think they even know better than she, while others seem to delight in picking apart elements of it and going off on how it is or is not appropriate. Many have a great deal of knowledge, no doubt gathered by reading many books and having grand discussions about what was read and how they understand it, but as for actual life experiences with the people or concepts they comment on, I suspect not.
It amazes me, and somewhat annoys me, that some think it's important to 'tell' you (generally speaking) of their vast comprehension of Rand and Objectivism; as if, rather than simply being able to relay the concepts to you, they want to preach to you its (or their version of it) superiority to other philosophies to you. I would suggest, although I'm certain you have (and if you haven't, how did you get here?), that you read her books and let that sink in a little before dwelling too much on the words of those posting here. After that, it takes some time to get a knew understanding of words like 'selfishness' and 'love' to begin to understand what she envisioned. It's even harder to put it into practice in real life.
I've only been here a short time myself, and I'm interested in what the Society can do in the real world, but I can't say that I'm too impressed by how they go about it.
MarantAZ
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01-17-2008, 7:48 PM
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NickOtani
Joined on 04-21-2006
Posts 323
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Actually, nobody from The Atlas Society posts here anymore. Ed Hudgins once posted here but doesn't anymore.
I try to answer questions as best I can, but they don't seem to satisfy. I tend to make enemies with people. They may think I'm preaching or bragging or talking down to them or showing off or something. I do try to pick apart some aspects of Objectivism, but I also try to defend other parts of it. I'm still searching, and haven't found yet, someone who can appreciate me for what I have to offer.
I would recommend, if you really want to learn about this value system, you read "The Objectivists' Ethics" in The Virtue of Selfishness. I also have a post on this forum about a Theory of Value, which sort of plagiarizes part of Rand's article and adds parts of several other philosophies and my own Neo-Objectivism, which is a mixture of Objectivism and Sartrian Existentialism.
Rand's theory of value, however, is integrated with her metaphysics and epistemology and aesthetics and politics and economics. There is really a lot of stuff here to review. I have reviewed it all, but many people still say I don't really get Objectivism. I think their views are really quite subjective.
bis bald,
Nick
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01-20-2008, 12:26 AM
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marantaz
Joined on 01-10-2008
Posts 19
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Well, Nick, maybe you scared them off. Or maybe they're just not as interested in discussion or action as they are in trying to get financial support. I am surprised that the society seems to be more interested in receiving money than it is in being politically active in limiting the governments power of the citizens. Seems to be a lot of talk, but no action, and when the talk doesn't get them any money, they give up.
I wrote about this to the editor of The New Individualist when I first found the Atlas Society... you probably won't be surprised to find that I have not heard from him, or received any emails or my complimentary issue yet.
What I see here is a society that doesn't sell advertising on its website, which doesn't make any business sense, and that makes me question not only who is in charge of this endeavor but what their real purpose is.
Looks to me like the society has been overrun by a bunch of 'progressives' that want to keep Individuals from being Objectivist. After watching the replay of the 50th Anniversary get-together the society had, I should have known that's what I'd find here. A lot of talk, but no action, and the ones running the joint really don't give a damn.
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01-20-2008, 11:47 AM
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NickOtani
Joined on 04-21-2006
Posts 323
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Well, marantaz, you may be right. I may be scaring some people off. I don't think, however, people such as David Kelley should be scared. I don't know why he doesn't make himself available to us on public forums such as this.
I also have concerns about this forum and website. It doesn’t seem to be maintained well. It just sits here. They did recently change their advertisement for the Summer Seminar and the Graduate Scholarship Offer, but that’s about all. One of the most recent writings is an explanation by William Thomas about why Objectivism is not as popular as it once was. David Kelley did write about how exchanging ideas is a good thing, like competition in the free market is good for material values, and he said debate should be encouraged. However, he doesn’t participate on discussion boards. The view seems to be that discussion boards, even this one, are populated by uncivil people who use insult and ridicule rather than reason and evidence, as if Ayn Rand never insulted philosophers who disagreed with her. They try to be above us.
These guys are still active. William Thomas did invite Lindsay Perigo to speak at the Portland Summer Conference, and he accepted. Lindsey Perigo runs the SOLO forum and is known as a sort of loose cannon. He is not always civil. He has criticized this society as well as the ARI, and he doesn’t get along well with the Brandens and other Objectivists. He calls the Objectivist Living forum, the Objectivist Lying forum. Ed Hudgins posted on his Blog on the SOLO forum about how concerned he was that Lindsey tone down his incivility. He doesn’t want any terrible riots at the Summer Conference at Portland. Others at SOLO are weighing in on all the insults directed toward Lindsey by Objectivists at Objectivist Living etc.
There are factions, even among these non-ARI Objectivists. This threatens to tear this movement apart. I can understand why Kelley wants to have some core principles which are sacred in this movement. Satanists and Neo-Tech people are also identifying themselves as Objectivists, and there has to be a way of separating from them. However, the TAS people also want to be a little more tolerant than Peikoff and the ARI people. It’s a fine line to walk.
I wish Kelley and Hudgins and Thomas and Perigo and others would post here. I’d be as civil to them as they are to me. I support open debate. I don’t appreciate being dismissed as someone who doesn’t know enough about Objectivism or philosophy. Haven’t I proven myself to them yet? No, it seems. They treat me as Peikoff and the ARI treat Kelley. Kelley should have a little more empathy.
Bis bald,
Nick
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03-31-2008, 5:01 PM
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EdSalti
Joined on 04-01-2008
Posts 1
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Old new guy here. Have recently renewed my academic interest in Objectivism and am looking for correspondents to toss ideas around with. Introduction to O was in '61 by a chance discovery of The Fountainhead. Story in excruciating detail available at the slightest hint of interest.
Observation: Based on personal experience as well as years of watching. You can observe a lot by watching, you know.
Perhaps, correspondents should be requested to post their age (67, here) and years of association with O (47 or so). Sauce for the gander, and all. Youngsters with jelly minds and the newly converted can be cut some slack for their zeal and insistence on following the letter of the law. My own proselytizing upon my conversion sent friends and family alike running for cover until the new wore off and I became comfortable in my skin again.
I have surfed a few sites since my reawakening and am a little disappointed that there seems to be a dearth of organizations actively promoting O to the great unwashed. If there is indeed a battle for men's minds, shouldn't we suit up, mount up, and take sword in hand? Merely setting up a citadel and allowing supplicants in doesn't seem to be a very aggressive battle plan.
Probably enough to start a word war for now. Hope to hear from you. Ed S.
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04-19-2008, 11:22 AM
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David George DeLancey
Joined on 07-06-2007
Posts 48
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![Umbrella [um]](/cs/emoticons/emotion-35.gif)
Re: Hello
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11:20 A.M. E.S.T. 4-18-2008.
ECELLENT ED.S THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU...Trust me next time i will be a little bit more detailed till then. 11:22 a.m. Cape Cod Mass resident
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04-19-2008, 2:37 PM
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solo
Joined on 08-08-2007
Posts 16
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Objectivism is derived from the fundamental nature of man and existence. It therefore will work for everyone, in all places, at all times and under any circumstances. As you will learn, if you persist in your inquiry here.
Few of the people on this website have the intelligence and knowledge to discuss this subject concisely and pointedly. Most stray wildly from the essentials of the issue under consideration and introject much "fluff." If you want to learn Objectivism, you should stick to the works of its creator and don't pay too much attention to its followers.
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The Atlas... » Ayn Rand's Idea... » General Discuss... » Hello
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